HOT TOPICS :
Gosip | COVID-19 | Ayo Vaksin
|
Thread Terpopuler
-
Kamis, 2024/03/18 12:43 WIB
Cinta Buta Pemuda Gresik Rela Dipenjara demi LC Warung Kopi Pangku
-
Kamis, 2024/03/18 14:24 WIB
Golkar Minta Jatah 5 Menteri Agar Jadi Lokomotif Utama Kabinet Prabowo
-
Kamis, 2024/03/18 12:55 WIB
Respons Pencinta Reptil soal Viral Emak-emak Madura Banting Ular
-
Jumat, 2024/03/13 11:47 WIB
Detik-detik Satu Keluarga Bunuh Diri di Apartemen Jakut Terekam CCTV
-
Jumat, 2024/03/13 14:18 WIB
Anies Pegang Prinsip yang Tak Menang Pilpres Berada di Luar Pemerintahan
-
Jumat, 2024/03/13 14:09 WIB
Aktor Digerebek di Apartemen Diduga Selingkuh, Ogah Buka Pintu Sampai 3 Jam
|
Thread Tools |
21st July 2011, 09:54 |
#31
|
Addict Member
|
Mr Massive, continue with my explaination.
5. RMAF is requeting the AESA radar from IRBIS (domestic used, not for export), and they in the process of discussion on it. But, my personal view, they will stick to PESA, since they need the a/c urgently, within 6 years. Thus, the FA18 superbugs already equip with AESA radar, so still capable for air defense if they paired together in any mission. Regarding the type of radar (in specific, as optional to N011M bars that they used currently) its still classified, i will share once it is permitted to publish. Please forgive me. _______________________________________________ 6. Issue on the TNIAL and RMN vessel on the air defense system, it's still because of the doctrine used by both country (to me, TNI is likely more on Soviet style which is focusing of quantity meanwhile RMN focusing on western style which is focusing in qualitiy. But, looking on the size of Indonesian country, to have a good number and quality of combat and support vessel is crucial, comparing to malaysian which is smaller. Even, RMN of Malaysia still facing a problem to get high tech (which is good in quality) since theif budget also has a limit. Thus, they upgrading the air defense for maritime strike to equalize the RMN needs. So, same purposed in different ways. |
Last edited by vympel; 21st July 2011 at 12:19.. |
21st July 2011, 10:32 |
#32
|
Addict Member
|
Last question on the issue how RTAF act to the RMAF modenization.
Well, what we need to understand is RMAF is in the process of geting a place average or equal, or if not, closer to RSAF. That is the main point. However, with their modernization, we will feel they are more inferior than us (RTAF), the RTAF top brass have decide 3 modernization program which are, 1. To get second batch JAS39Grippen NG (new generation), and with that procurement, we will get AEWC a/c. Although we still lack in the number of a/c, by using AEWC, we will be able to detect any air intrusion (air space break) so that we will be able to scamble our Grippen effectively. Thus, we also has request to increase a quantity of our BVRAAM AIM120C5, to ensure all our a/c has the BVR and WVR capabilites. No plan to adding F16 block 52/30 since we prefer to operate 1 kind of a/c only due to the cost issue. So, we stick with the F16 that we have now. * Some of the idea also to get F16 Block 60, which is the latest and modern a/c, equal to Mig35, but I think RTAF officer will goes for Grippen due the package offered (the AEWC a/c). _______________________________________ 2. to increase number of HAWK (anti air batteries), which is medium anti air and to increase long range radar for better protection from air intrusion. Some of the idea is to get passive radar ( to avoid HARM misile) during the SEAD/DEAD mission by the enemy, since passive radar do not transmit anything (like normal radar) but it only received a info, so no HARM misile could detect and destroy this team. We also in the process of getting second batch of anti air batteries, from other company i.e orliken and so on. Still classified to told. * noted that malaysian also used VERA E Passive radar when RSAF get the HARM misile from US. So, we learn from them (ATM of Malaysia) and any tactics that benefit to us, we will follow. ______________________________________ 3. in diplomatical way, we will increase our nationality relationship with Malaysian (even then, Malaysian still give help during the economic crisis, which is Indonesia make a huge money loan from IMF, its correct?), and we will upgrade our bilateral diplomacy contact to ensure no offensive act or mode we done. Currently, there is no hot issue between Malaysian and Thailand. We also will increase our joint excercise especially in mock fight (dissimilar air tactical training). _________________________________________ As we can see, there is no used to choose symetrical tactical only such as increasing the number of a/c and so on, but the best way is to also increasing the passive way i.e anti air batteries so that we will have a strength on different ways. More over, what we want is to protect our air space and home soil, not to offensive others.. To me, tactical matter is important, a good general is a person who can look the problem with calm and than decided with the best solution, not only in symetrical way, in other word, if the enemy fight us with sword, doesnt mean we need to fight them back with sword. there is other option rather than sword, such as stick, arrow and shield.." |
Last edited by vympel; 21st July 2011 at 10:55.. |
21st July 2011, 10:37 |
#33
|
|
Addict Member
|
Quote:
Mr Sangkelat, i also hope that KFX program will be smoothly. but in my opinion, the KFX program is far away from matured. Looks at the Rafale a/c, they only get 30,000 hours flight comparing to FA18SH (120,000 hours) and Typhoon (60,000 hours).. To ensure the KFX get at least 10,000 hours flight will be around 3 years after the KFX a/c were give to TNIAU (which is around 6 years + 3 years minimum). flight hours is important to a a/c manufacturer to ensure the system and the a/c is integrated smoothly. Thats why no Rafale been sold to other country and only French used it (no customer), its because it is not totally proven on the integration system and body frame strength. So, TNIAU will depending the Flanker series for its backbone. |
|
Last edited by vympel; 21st July 2011 at 11:00.. |
21st July 2011, 15:40 |
#34
|
|
Addict Member
|
Quote:
SGPV Program Thus, as inform above, RMN will annouce the SGPV program this coming LIMA (Langkawi International Maritime and Air exhibition), one company will be annouce as a winner togain the letter of award (contract) to built 6 unit of OPV (offshore patrol vessel), but will be same size as SIGMA 10514 (frigate) class of TNIAL. (again, they are playing with the name of Frigate and patrol vessel). Final contender The contender are SIGMA 10614 & GOWIND class (the exact model still not disclose, but I assume it should be Gowind 200, still need to clarify). Location of operating These 6 of frigate (or called SGPV/OPV by RMN) will be located at Sabah (east malaysian) for Spratly patrol and ambalat if needed (but I asume more to Spratly block). Weapons The Anti Ship Missile are NSM (Naval Sea Missile), the anti air area ESSM (Evolced Sea Sparrow Misile) meanwhile the torpedo for anti subs still Whitehead will be fitted to the vessel. The same weapons will be fitted to their first batch of OPV (called NGPV) which is a Meko design, MEKO A150 with modular concept. Strength As per my analysist, both Sigma and Gowind has own strength which are; Sigma ; 1. proven by Moroco naval force and TNIAL (although in different model) 2. stealth features 3. RMN prefer the Tacticos battle management install in Sigma Gowind 1. the same company (DCNS) who provide SSK Scorpene to RMN (RMN is satisfied for SSK Scorpene that provided before) 2. More modern compare to Sigma model since DCNS stealth applied to 6 unit frigates belong to RSN of singapore * RMN still looking for Exocet MM40block III, so they also hope by getting 6 unit of Gowind, they will be provided with that misile. The result? let me make my further analysist first. Tactical and formation RMN vessel At the meanwhile, although the incoming of this 6 SGPV and the exist of 6 unit NGPV, the Yarrow F2000 frigate, KD Lekiu and KD Jebat will be head of the fleet, although those 2 frigate only fitted with Exocet MM40 block II which is within the 70 km maximum range compare to 12 unit of new frigates (NGPV/SGPV) equip with NSM with total range of 148km. Why this situation happen? exocet MM40 block II (70 km max range) can overpass NSM with 148km? anyone can share some opinion? (i will share it later, and please remind me if I am forget about this) My analysist In my opinion, RMN will choose Gowind class due to the modern concept fit with it, and furthermore, the DCNS is the company which provide the SSK Scorpene, they were satisfied with that subs. As planned by RMN top brass, the suitable subs quantity is 6 for RMN, thus, I believe they will do 'business' with DCNS again (to get more subs) and the Gowind SGPV will be a 'ties' between RMN and DCNS. Thus, stealth capabilities of DCNS (applied by 6 RSN frigate) is more better compare to Sigma class since the coating and material, range / angle of the structure to reduce RCS. RMN also love Exocet more that others (they already approved by exocet firm as one of the best maintenace force for Exocet, thats why even RTN sent the misile for yearly maintenance, not to mention others country except TNIAL, but as stated by Exocet Firm, some of TNIAL armament officer were sent to Lumut, a district where RMN main based located to learn on how to maintain the Exocet). however, its still depend on Malaysian goverment to choose which one suite for them. quoate - sorry, out of topic since this thread is for RMAF, but it is better for me to stick with one thread with various discussion (by including RMN and army) |
|
Last edited by vympel; 21st July 2011 at 15:48.. |
21st July 2011, 21:56 |
#35
|
|
Addict Member
|
Quote:
As I can see, the KRI Diponegoro Sigma class is armed with SAM MBDA Mistral TETRAL, both at the front and at the back. And for the Anti Surface misile, they used MBDA SSM Exocet MM40 Block II with 2 x 2 (two launcher with two station) so that this Sigma class could shoot maximum 4 Exocet MM40. For the support cannon, they used Denel Vector G12 20mm. Since this KRI Dipnegoro is a corvette (light frigate) size, usually the standard weapon must be at least 4 x 2 (4 launcher and 2 station that will be able to shoot 8 exocet) and a minimum corvette air defense system must be MSHORAD (medium and short range air defense) system (equal to minimum of 10 km range) such as Aspide / Seawolf. However, the Sigma class only used Mistral Tetra which is VSHORAD (very short ranged of air defense) and the SSM also only 2x2 launcher. In my understanding, this classification as 2x2 SSM and VSHORAD system is suite for FAC-M vessel (fast attack craft - missile) which is smaller vessel compare to corvette size. The reason why a corvette (light frigate) and frigate (FFG) using at least MSHORAD / 4 x 2 SSM is because of the vessel usually operate in blue water area (far away from land) and must be able to sustain alone in the war at sea. Any SSM missile such as Exocet / Harpoon / NSM / Club-M / Yakhont (supersonic / subsonic) is too hard to shoot down via VSHORAD system because of the range it self and the size of the vessel. In naval tactic, all the SSM missile must be 'shoot down' within the range of 10km so that the vessel operators will be able to standby second stage weapons such as Phalanx or multipurpose gun, or else within 3 km (VSHORAD), the impact of the SSM missile will paralyzed the vessel (although the missile is been shoot) due to the kinetic impacts. moreover, usually we don’t just shoot 1 missile to the enemy vessel, and a standard operations system are to shoot at least 2 missile of SSM, so that if one of it fail to hit, the other will has the change to hit the vessel. So, in my humble opinion, 2x2 launcher is not enough. If the KRI Sigma class shoot 2 times, each 2 missile, then the vessel is weaponless to involve/get along in the war. So, my officer proposed to him (KRI Captain) to suggest to the TNIAL top brass to get at least MSHORAD air defense for better reason. He smile and he also agreed on the proposed/idea but as he said, he its depend on the government, to get it or not..TNIAL can propose a lot, but the last result still on government hand... I wish that Indonesian government can allocate better specification for the Sigma class vessel, since it has all spec such is the stealthy package, good engine, brand new body, but they lack on the weapons.. Hopefully Indonesian gov will look seriously in this matter. Quaote - please forgive me if my opinion is wrong, and please do not hesite to give your own opinion so that I will be able to learn something new. |
|
Last edited by vympel; 21st July 2011 at 22:04.. |
21st July 2011, 22:26 |
#36
|
Addict Member
|
@ stayalert, yes KF-X will be one of our future AF lifeline, but not in near future, remember that the original timeline is to have a flying prototype by 2020, not an operational a/c, so it will take at least another decade to have a fully operational KF-X in our AF inventories. And the idea to operate bomber isn't really a feasible option for us. The only type of bomber in service today by modern AF is strategic bomber, hence the name 'strategic', its not a technology can be own by all AF. If what you mean is to have medium bomber (like chinese Xian H-6), let me tell you that to operate medium sized bomber is an obsolete tactics. e.g. Chinese AF start to retire their older H-6 fleet and replace them with Su-30 series because Su-30 can achive roughly the same range and firepower compared to H-6, with the aditional bonus of survivability and accuracy. So for us, just like Vympel said, having several squad of well armed flanker can pack more punch than using bomber.
@vympel, thanks for your explanation, so RTAF is not having any plan to operate high-power a/c (flanker,eagle class of fighter) and stick to light fighter? And i saw the same problem with the spec of SIGMA class corvette when it first launch. As i dig in more thoroughly on the matter, i came up to a statement that SIGMA is classified as ocean-going patrol vessel, so the reason of it being lightly armed is may because it never intended to do long-haul trip. In my opinion, a fairly capable ship for TNIAL now is atleast to be armed with SAM in the class of Aster 15, SSM with range in excess of 100 km with sea skimming capabilities, and CIWS (gun based like phalanx or missile based like RAM). With this kind of firepower, TNIAL can equal the threat posed by any neighbouring country (not only malaysia, but australia as well) Back to the RMAF, so the one that they'll buy is the two seat F/A-18F superhornet version. if that so, i say that RMAF superbugs will be emphasized to do more of ground attack role, and maybe, EW role (learning from RAAF who include an option of rewiring their brand new F/A-18F to EA-18G growler standard). And with the latest avionics and radar (AESA, etc), RMAF will have a complete and modern a/c package. My questions are vympel, will the US congress men let RMAF to buy new smart weapons such as the JDAM? Or even worse, will they let RMAF buy stand-off weaponry like JSOW, JASSM, or SLAM? Because if they do, then our armed force will have no defence against that kind of weaponry. RMAF a/c can simply fire their ordnance without even have to worry of us firing back. |
23rd July 2011, 13:25 |
#38
|
|
Addict Member
|
Quote:
tapi tak cobo jawab titik titik yo. kenopo rmaf focusk di maritime strike itu sperti omongane sun zu awal kemenangan perang berasal dari serangan langit. menurut malisiya agresi ke daratan malay datang dari 3 arah. soko thailand (diam diam malaysia mendukung provinsi patani ),indonesia (banyak kasus agresi malay ke wlyah indonesia) dan laut cina selatan (spratly). soo dibutuhkan alutsista yang modern yang bisa memukul di udara darat dan laut untuk menyetop agresi tsb. cuman keknya malay kedodoran di SDM nya kurang mumpuni, maklum mrk kan orang kaya maka jadi tentara males gerak maunya pencet tombol aja dan bum musuh mati. |
|
23rd July 2011, 22:20 |
#39
|
|
Addict Member
|
Quote:
Sorry for late reply. Well, on the KFX program..I agreed on you. KFX is for long term program (which is estimated at 2020) meanwhile the needs of a/c is within this 5 years. To me, a land is big Indoensian, 2-3 squadron is enough. Well, RTAF policy is to counter any thread from other a/c by anti air, to us, thats more better (with the cost of 1 FA18 SH, we can get at least 4 unit of anti air bateries). The use of JAS 39 Grippen (and the next grippen model of NG procurement will be annouce on year of 2013) is to intercept other a/c if there is any breaked up by other air force (the AEWC is very much helpful). So, no plan to get a flanker series, more over RTAF is a western / europe asset user (for main asset) not as TNIAU and RMAF which is using mix and match policy. On the Sigma, I believe oneday TNIAL, when the budget is allowed will upgrading the anti air system, no doubt on it. So, no need to worry on it, just wait and see. Ok, on RMAF issue, i dont think they will go for Growler version and they will stick to FA18 F superbugs maritime strike as main task (EW tactical and asset will be number two, well, they are not a rich country..just spend more on their small budget, as well as we are). On the weaponary package, its still clasified to share with you all (once permitted, I will share with you..promise), but as my personnal opinion, they are going to get more Harpoon air launch version (AGM84 if not mistake) for maritime strike, which is dedicated for anti surfaces tactical. On the JDAM / JSOW and any munitions thats equal to it, if the procurement were done, it will be their secret and other country Intel will try to get the clarification / veryfication on it (by intel activities i.e hummint, signint, commint etc). Just to remember, during the crisis of Malaysia vs Singapore on water issue, before that no other country except Singapore is using AGM84 harpoon and when there is an issue of Mersing theory / east cost theory (to invade Malaysia by Singapore via amphibious landing at Johor, Pahang and Terengganu), the Singaporean army top brass where shock that RMAF 'has the Harpoon' when 6 hornet from penang based were park at Kuantan (openly for public view) and the since that no info on east cost/west cost amphibious landing (harpoon is the deadly guided misile for anti surface on maritime strike). So, same as JDAM /JSOW issue, if they have it, they will publish it for deterrence factor when needed. Same as R77 BVRAAM issue, no other country can verify that RMAF has the misile (by procurement of Mig29N) since the verification made by them, they only procure R37 and R27. But when during the conflict with Singapore (if I'm not mistaken), when RSAF get AIM120C5 (now C7 version), the Singapore Prime Minister, Lee Kuan Yew has make a clear statement that he is pleased if any other country could attack their his via air power (of course he think that only RSAF has the BVRAAM). During that time, Singapore intel has confirmed to LKY that only Singapore has the BVR capabilities. In that time, RMAF has shown their Mig29N with R77 BVRAAM hangging at the wings (publish by local newspaper and TV news) and start form that time, no ****** statement were out from Lee Kuan yew mouth. So, if RMAF get the JDAM and any smart munitions, they will keep it silence and its up to our intel to get the 'real' data for tactical reason. |
|
Last edited by vympel; 23rd July 2011 at 23:09.. |
23rd July 2011, 22:28 |
#40
|
|
Addict Member
|
Quote:
Supertucano is a close ground air support to support the army, same as BAE HAWK. However, if the amphibious landing (to sent the marines) were done at other country, the Supertucano is not much help, the Su30MK/MK2 is more reliable on this task (with better speed, agile, long distance, amount of bomb carried and so on). Supertucano only effective for domestic used (CAS as Mr Stayalert said) and when there is no other harm from air space and anti air batteries. |
|
Last edited by vympel; 23rd July 2011 at 23:06.. |
detikNews
- detikNews · Berita · Internasional · Kolom · Wawancara · Lapsus · Tokoh · Pro Kontra · Profil · Indeks
- detikSport · Basket · MotoGP · F1 · Raket · Sepakbola · Sport Lain · Galeri · Profil · Fans Area · Indeks
- Sepakbola · Italia · Inggris · Spanyol · Jerman · Indonesia · Uefa · Bola Dunia · Fans Area · Indeks
- detikOto · Mobil · Motor · Modifikasi · Tips & Trik · Konsultasi · Komunitas · OtoTest · Galeri · Video · Forum · Indeks
- detikHot · Celebs · Music · Movie · Art · Gallery · Profile · KPOP · Forum · Indeks
- detikInet · News · Gadget · Games · Fotostop · Klinik IT · Ngopi · Produk Pilihan · Forum · Indeks
- detikFinance · Ekonomi Bisnis · Finansial · Properti · Energi · Industri · Sosok · Peluang Usaha · Pajak · Konsultasi · Foto · TV · Indeks
- detikHealth · Health News · Sexual Health · Diet · Ibu & Anak · Konsultasi · Health Calculator · Foto Balita · Bank Nama Bayi
- detikTravel · Travel News · Destinations · Photos · d'Trips · Hotels · Flights · ACI · d'Travelers Stories
- Wolipop · Fashion · Photos · Beauty · Love & Sex · Home & Family · Wedding · Entertainment · Sale & Shop · Hot Guide · d'Lounge · Indeks
- detikFood · Resep · Tempat Makan · Kabar Kuliner · Halal · Komunitas · Forum · Konsultasi · Galeri · Indeks
- detikSurabaya · Berita · Bisnis · Society · Foto · TV · Indeks
- detikBandung · News · Sosok · Info · Pengalaman Anda · Lifestyle · Iklan Baris · Foto · TV · Info Iklan · Forum · Indeks
Iklan Baris · Blog · Forum · adPoint · Seremonia · Sindikasi · Info Iklan · Suara Pembaca · Surat dari Buncit · detikTV · Cari Alamat
Copyright © 2019 detikcom, All Rights Reserved · Redaksi · Pedoman Media Siber · Karir · Kotak Pos · Info Iklan · Disclaimer